The podcasting side of this project has been fun. Latest episode is my conversation with Bilal Muhammad, one my oldest and closest friends.
Bilal has his own podcast, The BEGIN Podcast, where he and several friends discuss super-hero/genre films. Since Bilal is a seasoned podcaster, I ask him for tips about podcasting. We also talk Justice League, DMX, and the Derek Chauvin trial.
Lessons Learned from Starting a Podcast
Speaking of podcasting, I have completed sixteen episodes (Bilal was number thirteen) and wrote down some lessons learned.
TL;DR:
-If you're having fun, the audience will have fun.
-Iterate
-People like talking about themselves
-Guests control what happens to the episode.
-Prep and then freelance.
-Don’t ask the same boring shit.
-Record the intro afterwards and summarize key takeaways.
-Equipment: wired headphones and mic with some pillows around your desk.
-Platform: Use Zoom. Make your Zoom screen small.
Here are the lessons with more detail and explanation:
NUMBER ONE PIECE OF ADVICE (Have fun)
Early on, the best piece of advice I received about podcasting was, “If you’re having fun, the audience will have fun.” This maxim has proven true over and over again.
FAIL QUICKLY (Iterate)
Start. Make mistakes. Learn. Iterate. This process is at the heart of skill development. And success. There is no success without failure. If you’re not making mistakes, you’re being too safe.
What does this mean in terms of podcasting? Easy. Record five episodes with five different friends/family members. Don’t publish them. You will improve exponentially from episode one to episode five.
Now you’re ready to begin.
BOOKING GUESTS (People like to talk about themselves)
Who is the funniest person you know? That’s your first guest.
After that, you can go one of two ways. Is your podcast about some niche topic (sport fishing or hiking or, god forbid, “lean startups”) or is it general conversations with interesting people?
If it is about something niche, say a minute-by-minute analysis of the 1995 film Heat that an Australian named Blake Howard made called One Heat Minute, then make a list of all the people you’d like to talk to. This could be actors, behind-the-scenes people, critics, bloggers who love the film Heat, etc. Make a list, or a series of concentric circles, with the number one “get” at the top of your list or in the middle of your concentric circles. In Howard’s case it was Michael Mann, the writer and director of Heat. Work your way out from here. Can you get Mann, one of the smartest and busiest directors in Hollywood? No. Can you you get Pacino or DeNiro? Nope. Can you get Danny Trejo? Probably not, but at least ping him on Twitter. Can you get Xander Berkely, who played in one scene in the film? Probably. Check the crew credits on IMDB. Can you get the set dresser or craft services person who has a bunch of great anecdotes? They’re on Twitter. You probably can. Can you get the random blogger who wrote a great analysis of Heat? Yes. Your college roommate who loves Heat? Of course.
The point is, you make a list from who is most difficult to get (Michael Mann) to who is easiest to get (your college roommate). Work your way through the list, from easiest to most difficult.
In Howard’s case, after 200 plus episodes, guess who his final guest was? Michael Mann.
By the way, the idea of concentric circles comes from Robert Caro, whose biography series The Years of Lyndon Johnson is probably the greatest examination of how political power works in America. This is his method. He’s only won multiple Pulitzer Prizes.
Twitter.
I think Sam Parr made the point that fifty years from now people will be amazed that you could access virtually anyone’s email and send them a message. Same with Twitter. You won’t be able to message most famous people, of course, but you don’t have to be famous to be interesting. Follow them, like some tweets, send them a DM.
When you DM your potential interviewee, your first impulse will be to give them a long explanation about your podcast, and what you’re attempting to do, and why they should be a guest. Don’t. Everyone knows what a podcast is and almost everyone likes to talk about themselves. That’s enough. Keep it short and sweet. “Hey John, Big fan. Would you like to come on my podcast for thirty minutes and discuss sports fishing in Alaska?”
Everyone has a podcast now. No more explanation is needed. Don’t even bother with a link to your pod.
Finish and let them go.
People do love to talk about themselves but when the interview is finished it is finished. Don’t ask them to hold on for a minute so you can discuss something real quick “off air.” Don’t end with an ask, like “Can you connect me to this other sports fisherman” Plug their work, end the interview, thank them for their time.
Follow up the next day with a thank you, highlighting one specific thing you appreciated, and let them know when the episode is going up. Send them a link when it goes live. Ask them again if there is anything you can plug. Thank them again. That’s it. No ask.
Eventually, organically, some of your interview subjects will become “friends”, at least on social media, and one guest will lead to another. Don’t force it.
Speaking of guests…
GUESTS (They are in control of the episode)
They are in control of what happens with the interview (unless you’re doing investigative journalism). I tell them up front, and afterwards, I can edit anything out and/or scrap the whole episode if you’re not happy.
Off-air I always ask the following three questions:
-Can you say your last name for me (so I can pronounce it correctly)?
-Anything you’d like me to promote?
-Any topics you want to stay away from (politics, that controversial article you wrote, whatever)?
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS (Don’t ask the same boring shit)
If my interview subject is someone I don’t know and, especially, if it is someone who has been interviewed a lot, I like to start with some off-beat questions.
One, they are interesting and two, they tend to put the subject at ease.
Lately, the first off-beat question I start with is, “When you were a senior in high school, what music were you listening to?” One, this puts people in a happy mindset. Two, it’s specific and virtually everyone remembers. The music we listened to in high school is music that sticks with us.
My second question is, “What’s your favorite type of taco?” Again, specific (everyone has an answer) and off-beat. It signals, this interview is going to be different. And it signals fun. Music from high school and comfort food? I’m automatically in a better mood.
From there, you are off and running. Use open-ended questions. “You hiked the Andes when you were nineteen years old. What was that like?”
I use the phrase “Talk to me” a lot. “You met Mike Tyson when you were a waiter at Ruth’s Chris Steak House. Talk to me about that.”
INTERVIEW PREP (Prep and then freelance)
If it is someone I don’t know, I do my research. Check out their Twitter feed, of course. Also their website, blog, LinkedIn profile…
I write out a list of specific questions. Once the interview starts, and I ask my two off-beat questions (“What music did you listen to senior year of high school?” and “What’s your favorite type of taco?”), I refer to my written list of questions. I ask the first one and then I stay present, listen, and naturally respond to their answer. Meaning, I no longer refer to the questions. I have the questions if I need them but, hopefully, the interview shifts to a conversation with a natural back and forth.
We’ve all listened to podcasts where the conversation was stilted and unnatural because the interviewer was just working their way through a list of questions rather than LISTENING and responding to the answers. Joe Rogan, of course, is one of the best at listening and having a natural conversation.
INTROS/OUTROS/KEY TAKEAWAYS (Summarize the interview or convo in the intro)
Record the intro and outro AFTER the interview. In the intro, summarize the key takeaways. After a hundred episodes, you’ll have a wealth of knowledge from your key takeaways. Turn this into a great blog post, article, or short eBook, ala Tim Ferris’ “Tools of Titans.”
Put some music underneath the intros and outros. Always notify the audience as to where they can “find” the interview subject online. Twitter, newsletter, website, whatever.
PLATFORM (Use Zoom. Make your Zoom screen small)
I started with zencastr. I lost two interviews. However, I’m in Namibia and my internet can be tricky. Might not be zencastr’s fault. I’ve subsequently used Zoom and it works fine. Make sure to go to Preferences > Recording and select “Record a separate audio file for each participant”. Having separate audio tracks will help if you decide to edit your podcast beyond adding intros and outros.
When recording via Zoom you should be on-screen. It’s fine if the interviewee isn’t on-camera but they should see you. I ask a question, mute my mic, and then give lots of visual support. I nod, I smile, I give a thumbs up.
By the way, always mute your mic after you ask a question. In normal conversation, we often interject, say “Yeah” or “Uh huh” or “Right!” but this is distracting for your audience. Ask a question and STFU, i.e. mute your mic.
Pro tip: Minimize your Zoom screen so that it takes up a quarter or your screen. One of the reasons for “Zoom Fatigue” is that, evolutionarily speaking, we are not used to seeing such large faces in our field of vision. In real life, the only reason we see someone directly in front of us, taking up almost our entire field of vision, is because a) we’re about to kiss or b) we’re about to fight. When we see a face close-up on Zoom our mind and body react accordingly and then neither a kiss or a fight happens and our body is confused and thinks, “We built up oxytocin or cortisol for nothing. WTF?" Making the Zoom screen smaller makes the size of the other person’s face more natural and reduces this intense reaction.
EQUIPMENT (Wired headphones. Foam panels or, in a pinch, some pillows)
This is a rabbit hole. A potentially expensive rabbit hole. At the very least, use wired headphones and put some pillows around your desk. As you work your way up, get a proper mic, mic stand, and foam panels.
From there it gets more and more expensive until you’re at the top of the podcast pyramid, using a Zoom H6 digital recorder with dual Sennehiser cardiod mics and doing in-person interviews. That can wait.
Sixteen episodes in, those are the lessons learned. My goal is to record fifty episodes and then go from there so maybe I’ll do another lessons learned post after Episode Fifty :-)
That’s all for today. Please feel free to forward this email to anyone who might be interested.
Have a great day.
Ben